It's a unique activity for two. ( Log Out / Still, the final word would go to the Messerschmitt, and in a very unlikely way. I’m no aeronautical engineer – this was comprehensive (to my mind) and easy to understand. That put additional strains on the landing gear. The Bf 109F-3 and F-4 models, introduced around mid-1941, improved on the E models with the help of the more powerful DB-601E engine. In the early part of the war, it could be argued that the Bf 109 (E and F variants) held the upper hand over the Spitfire Mk 1A/B and Mk V. But as the war wore on, the Spitfire’s inherently more advanced design, as well as the infusion of US technology (100-octane fuel, Browning machine guns, TR.5043 VHF radios, and so on) gave it a clear advantage over the simpler and lighter Bf 109 that persisted right up to the end. It eliminated parallax errors and made deflection shots more accurate. As the wing loading increased, so did the demands on brute muscle power to actuate the controls. Willy, The Spitfire IX, often seen as the ultimate evolution of the type, was able to outclass the Bf 109G as well as the newer, With the steady increase in weight, the Bf-109G’s handling qualities suffered. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! 1. Who each pilot was, the training, experience and personality that accompanied each individual pilot. 27° +/-3° up and 24° +/-3° down. had a superior rate of climb and could dive very well. Yet another example would be automatic leading-edge slats that prevented the Bf 109 from going into a stall at low speeds or in high-G turns. You clearly seem interested and well-read in WWII aviation, which is nice to see. Willy Messerschmitt’s bird had a rather different background, with Messerschmitt learning the trade by designing sailplanes. Page 41, the G-10 is considered the easiest to fly because of the longer tailwheel. Those interested in the Cold Way should read A pilot’s guide to flying and fighting in the Lightning. The Bf 109 also suffered from handling challenges, both in the air as well as on the ground. IXO/ALTAYA/ATLAS Dogfight Set Supermarine Spitfire Mk I vs. Messerschmitt Bf 109-E Die-Cast 1:72 Zwei Flugzeuge im Set; Maßstab 1:72; Auf Sockelfuß ; In Sammlerbox; Luftfahrtgeschichte: Messerschmitt Bf 109. Unser Testerteam wünscht Ihnen zu Hause viel Erfolg mit Ihrem Spitfire scheune! Johnny Johnson; After flying the Mk. Parts sealed with stickers and instructions. These two have been hanging in my garage for at least 30 years. These were easy enough to concentrate in the nose. So the latter 109’s were indeed much improved over 43 era G-6 models. G-10 elevator travel different than G-6, this means more bang for the buck when one pulls on the stick. £110. This mean you had to aim very carefully, but when you did, our excellent ammunition got the job done. This was easy enough to accommodate in the Hurricane’s thick wings. Indeed, the powerful Merlin 61 and four-bladed propeller allowed it to outrun, out-turn, and out-climb the Bf-109G. Even the Erla Haube canopy was more streamlined than previous birdcage designs. The Kurfürst was far from the finest, with most pilots (and historians) usually ranking the Friedrich as the most well-balanced of the lot. The oil pan was made from roughly 1 quarter inch steel, armored in other words, to protect against ground fire. In capable hands, both aircraft could more than hold their own against any aerial adversaries. However, this relevance on a mere two machine-guns was to change. improved propellers were being developed when the war ended which would have boosted the speed to 727 km/h (452 mph), and 741 km/h (459 mph) was expected with an experimental swept-back propeller design. He used this aircraft to achieve at lease two of his 9 kills in Griffon engined Spitfires to become the only Mk. It is well known by now that a Bf 109 taking off from Northern France had about 10 minutes of flying time over London, not nearly enough to battle it out with RAF Spitfires and Hurricanes. TAS email@example.com The Bf 109 had no such pedals. In the following article, I evaluate the two on the basis of six rectally extracted parameters… An amazing performance of the warbirds. This would then power the two final versions of the Bf 109, namely the Bf 109G ‘Gustav’ and the Bf 109K ‘Kurfürst’. Airfix 50014 Supermarine Spitfire MkVB vs.Messerschmitt Bf109F (Dog Fight Double Gift Set) Maßstab: 1:48. The aircraft that came to be the Supermarine Spitfire was the brainchild of R. J. Mitchell, a talented engineer that had designed some of the most iconic racing seaplanes of the interwar years. : Vom Prototyp bis zur Bf 109 K Revell REV-03958 10 … It wasn’t practical to try and make it go faster. Dogfight #599. Joachim Müncheberg) | World War 2 - Gela, Sicily April 1941 | RLM70 RLM02 RLM65; Supermarine Spitfire Supermarine Spitfire Mk.Vb (Trop) Royal Air … Mk 24, good fighter bomber, new tail made aiming much better. The Bf 109’s canted undercarriage often caused aircraft on landing runs to suddenly spin around and suffer serious damage if one wheel lost traction. Thanks for the amazing blog . It takes a bunch of weight off the nose and dampens the vibration so that the airplane definitely feels smoother and lighter on the controls. The Supermarine Spitfire was a very serious rival to the German Messerschmitt Bf 109, abbreviated Me 109, and it developed during the Battle of Britain in 1940 into a very worthy opponent, although one with different flying qualities. The few fighters left to defend the western front seldom rose up to meet the RAF’s challenges. ( Log Out / One query – what were the “certain conditions” that restricted pilots being able to exert maximum force to the controls in the Bf-109? Both had to meet an official specification from their respective Air Ministries. When tasked with as bomber escorts, the need to fly at sub-optimal altitudes and speeds often increased fuel consumption to the point where the 109s were forced to return to France before the bombers had reached their objectives. It was a short burst, maybe 10 shells from each cannon, but I saw the bomber explode & begin to burn. Jeffrey Quill commented that “The AFDU were quite right to criticise the handling of the Mark 21. Eric Brown, a Royal Navy test pilot who evaluated a captured Bf-109G, commented that “in a dive at 400 mph, the controls felt as though they had seized!” The addition of a water-methanol tank—whose contents were injected into the engine to provide a short burst of additional power—adversely affected the centre-of-gravity and made handing unpredictable in some portions of the flight envelope. Here the 109 had a clear edge. The Spitfire IX, often seen as the ultimate evolution of the type, was able to outclass the Bf 109G as well as the newer Focke-Wulf Fw 190A in combat. Seems like it came down to several things. Messerschmitt ME / BF 109 and Supermarine Spitfire dogfight. In November 1944, the Air Fighting Development Unit had recommended that, because of the instability of the first F.21s, not only should the mark be withdrawn from service immediately but no more effort should be made to perpetuate the Spitfire family. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. I saw strikes on my opponent’s engine cowl just before he rolled over and bailed out about ten miles south of Al Arish. as to 30 mm, the problem was isolated regarding jams, the shells were of poor construction often due to slave labor, after this was discovered, a major fix was put in & this largely addressed this issue, as to distance, Goerg Peter Eder says 300 yards here. Box showing minor signs of wear so sold as seen. In an era when hydraulically boosted controls were not available, this was a serious deficiency. From 14th June until 31st December, 1941 JG26 and JG2, shot down four hundred and eleven RAF aircraft, mainly Spitfires, over the Channel and the French coast. Although the plane was outdated as a fighter by this time, the Spanish Air Force decided that an improved version could be useful in counter-insurgency operations in their North African colonies. Luftwaffe. In a dogfight? The problem was I wouldn't like to be in a dogfight near Berlin, because I could never get home to Britain in a Spitfire!" The solution arrived in the form of Seafury after the war. Finally, the issues with the engine-mounted cannon were resolved in the F-4 model, which flew with a 20mm cannon that proved to be very accurate. It also makes power faster — it spins up right away. One of the major problems was that the young state lacked any kind of combat aircraft, and due to an arms embargo, acquiring them proved difficult. Both planes evolved continuously during their long careers, and any attempt at an answer will have to include a reference to the timeframe in question. Extremely few front-line aircraft stayed in production throughout the Second World War, and both the Spitfire and the Bf 109 belong to this exclusive club. The ‘new’ fighter was named Avia S-99, but after only a minor batch had been delivered, a warehouse fire destroyed the stored stocks of DB 605 engines. Vom Prototypen bis zur Bf 109 K. Das meistgebaute Jagdflugzeug der deutschen Luftfahrtgeschichte. http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal11/10801-10900/gal10810-Spitfire-Ulgur/00.shtm, Yes, the ‘Frankenfire’ was one of the weirder things to come out of the war. Link the MK 14 Spit gun data Sämtliche in dieser Rangliste vorgestellten Spitfire scheune sind 24 Stunden am Tag bei Amazon.de zu haben und in kürzester Zeit in Ihren Händen. ( Log Out / The E-3 models, though, were equipped with a 20 mm cannon under each wing, installed in two streamlined blisters along with a 60-round ammunition drum. This puts the question of greatness into perspective. No 91 Sqn. both of them became difficult to control laterally in roll about 400mph. Griffon engined Spitfire by comparison had directional instability issues, tail problems, & Griffon weighed 300 pounds more than Merlin, all of it at the nose, which would affect turning performance adversely. War Thunder Spitfire Mk IX vs IL 10 - Dogfight. ( Log Out / “Japanese knowhow”, “German Engineering”. The late-mark Spitfires certainly had lost some of the crisp handling of the earlier marks, but the same holds true for the Bf 109 as well. And the fine tolerances demanded by the design team—not something that British industry was used to—led to quality issues. See more ideas about Messerschmitt, Wwii aircraft, World war ii. Looking for something more humorous? Post-war testing by the RAF revealed that under certain conditions, the force that pilots could exert on the Bf 109’s control column was only 40% of what they could apply in the Spitfire. To quote Anthony Cooper (Darwin Spitfires ISBN 9 781742 322270, recommended). One was the tendency to ground loop. From the cocaine, blood and flying scarves of World War One dogfighting to the dark arts of modern air combat, here is an enthralling ode to these brutally exciting killing machines. With the steady increase in weight, the Bf-109G’s handling qualities suffered. 5:53. The Spitfires were powerless. That structure lacked the strength to endure hard landings. Initially, Fighter Command had Spitfires take off with adhesive tape covering the gunports in order to prevent the condensation from entering and icing the gun barrels. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. This was solved when it was decided to mate the Jumo 211F engine and propeller used by the Heinkel He 111 to the airframe of the Bf 109G, a decision based more on availability than any finer points of engineering. “managed to shoot down (to?). Also, when in a steep dive, the column would become very stiff; the pilot couldn’t reposition himself to exert the maximum amount of force on the column like could in a Spit. During the latter part of the war, Spain had secured license production rights of the Bf 109G from Germany, but they too found that the DB 605 where not available. All bullshit – who won the war? ( Log Out / . What were RAF Spitfire LOSSES, as opposed to Luftwaffe CLAIMS? But the Spitfire—with its larger airframe, stronger structure, and superior engine—was better able to support the installation of advanced engines, armour, and heavier armament. There were two major problems with the landing gear design that caused serious losses of Bf 109s on take-off and landing. G-2 British tested at 467 mph in dive, here we have 560 mph TAS from tall wood tail Roland. Also G-10 had electronic ignition like P-51 so one could re-start the motor in mid air.. This if anything shows the fact that RAF still valued the fighter in its later versions. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. The aircraft’s small cowling was inadequate for heat dissipation, which made the DB 605 engine prone to overheating and catching fire. The most critical one was the issue with its undercarriage. Alan Deere, Nine Lives, (Crecy Publishing, Manchester, 1999), p. 258. After the war, the Czechoslovak aircraft industry had to find a way to supply the country’s reborn air force with fighters. 33° +/-3° up and 34° +/-3° down, and The lack of resources and the need for more weapons for the German forces prevented any major upgrade for the 109 instead more were built to meet the needs of the Air Force. Not true, G-10 was easier to handle than G-6. Condition: New. I immediately engaged my opponent in an old-fashioned dogfight scissors. Rowland White, author of the best-selling ‘Vulcan 607’, I’ve selected the richest juiciest cuts of Hush-Kit, added a huge slab of new unpublished material, and with Unbound, I want to create a beautiful coffee-table book. In the final analysis, it is difficult to declare an overall victor without going into the details of each variant. Capt. In a Wehrmacht that had increasingly begun to equip itself with poorly conceived, overly-complicated weapons whose paper performance was never quite realised in the field (*cough* Me-262 *cough*), the Bf 109 stood out as a rare example of German engineering that was cheap, reliable, maintainable, and easy to manufacture—all while delivering superb performance on the battlefield. Free shipping . 21st Century Toys. Zuletzt verfügbar: 12.11.2014. The Supermarine Type-300 (an early prototype of what would become the Spitfire) was initially designed to be armed with only two machine guns. €29.54 oder 19200 Pkte. In my 2012 Quadrant essay Hermann Goering and the burning of the Bialowieza I made a comment that at the start of the war the Luftwaffe’s Messerschmitt 109 fighter was about on a par with the RAF’s Spitfire, but superior to the Hurricane. XIV for the first time Johnnie Johnson said that it was a nice and fast aeroplane”). IXO/ALTAYA/ATLAS Dogfight Set Supermarine Spitfire Mk I vs. Messerschmitt Bf 109-E Die-Cast 1:72 http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/art … s/#109hard. At low to medium altitudes, where much of the air combat in the early war occurred, the Bf 109 had the upper hand. In this case, the Germans desperately needed all available engines for themselves. The Mg 131 was about 70% as strong as the M2 .50 with API rounds…, http://members.tele2.nl/harmstolk/gunpower.htm. Both machines where primarily designed with aerodynamic performance in mind, with armament being a secondary consideration. Dive also was one way the 109 did better than Spit in late war development. In September 1941 a new shape began to appear in the skies above north-west Europe. The Spitfire therefore had to roll over and dive, which cost precious seconds in combat. The requirement for increased firepower led to persistent teething troubles with the armament of both aircraft well into their service lives. Attrition of quality pilots turned the tide in the air as much as any evolution of fighter design. And now for some out-of-schedule aviation geekiness: Yesterday I encoutnered an off-hand comment about whether the Spitfire or the Messerschmitt (understood to be the Bf 109) was the superior fighter. The Bf 109s angular canopy with its thick frame fell short. As the Bf 109G had been produced in the country during the German occupation, it was a natural choice. Eric Brown, a Royal Navy test pilot who evaluated a captured Bf-109G, commented that “in a dive at 400 mph, the controls felt as though they had seized!” The addition of a water-methanol tank—whose contents were injected into the engine to provide a short burst of additional power—adversely affected the centre-of-gravity and made handing unpredictable in some portions of the flight envelope. Delays in transferring knowledge and drawings to various subcontractors slowed down production. Sämtliche in dieser Rangliste gelisteten Messerschmitt Flugzeug sind 24 Stunden am Tag bei amazon.de verfügbar und in kürzester Zeit bei Ihnen zu Hause. The Bf 109 wasn’t very different. As the wing loading increased, so did the demands on brute muscle power to actuate the controls. Much (too much) has been made of these different pedigrees, and how they shaped the fighters that came to be. EXITO CARTOGRAPH DECALS-1:32 Sexy Spitfires-Supermarine Spitfire LF Mk Vb - VII. http://www.thefullwiki.org/Supermarine_Spitfire_(late_Merlin_powered_variants). The Spitfire first flew in March 1936. Unsere Redaktion wünscht Ihnen zu Hause schon jetzt viel Erfolg mit Ihrem Messerschmitt Flugzeug! Accordling to Ludwig Bölkow as quoted in the above book, the Me 109K had a reduced ground angle to improve handling, indicated as 12 degrees in one drawing and as 11.9 degrees in another. The Bf 109 was the first to be forced into an offensive role: first as a fighter that would provide top cover to an advancing German Army, and later as an escort for Luftwaffe bombers attacking Britain. This did not always work. Some people ask me this question in the same context and they seem quite surprised when I tell them that there were 22 marks of Spitfires in service between 1940 and 1945 and I flew every one of them. I was given the Spitfire vs Messerschmitt experience from my other half for Christmas as I am a bit of WW2 buff. Have a look at this F-35 satire and ‘Werner Herzog’s Guide to pusher bi-planes or the Ten most boring aircraft. ( Log Out / “Spitfires tasked to carry out offensive fighter sweeps and raids over Northern France in 1941 faced the same issue. The armament consisted of two 20 mm cannons backed up by two heavy .50 calibre machine guns (12,7 mm), and for ground attack up to 450 kg of bombs could be carried. At 300 yards I opened with the 30’s. Accommodating a more powerful engine, increased armament, new radios, and armour plate within the Bf-109G’s tiny airframe was a major challenge. It appeared that it came down to one pilot, making one mistake and the other pilot either taking advantage of that mistake or not. Vom Prototypen bis zur Bf 109 K. Das meistgebaute Jagdflugzeug der deutschen Luftfahrtgeschichte. Engaging Top (and bottom) 10s including: Greatest fighter aircraft of World War II, Worst British aircraft, Worst Soviet aircraft and many more insanely specific ones. The DB 605 was the same engine block as the DB 601, it was just bored out, so the 109 did not have the same overweight issue the later Spit did. later 109’s also had a 3 & 1/2 inch thick windscreen, P-51 & Spit I think retained thin ones. Seize this unique chance to pilot a Spitfire MK2A and a Messerschmitt BF109, unmistakable icons of WWII. It remains to this day the third most produced aircraft in the world. More interesting is the fact, that in this tests, which had not the aim to estimate the highest mach number or to test the structure, they reached These were excellent for speed and turning performance, but bad for firepower. Only four years later, the Merlin 60-series (61, 63 and 66) gave Spitfires of the marks VIII, IX and XVI some 1280 kW of power, for a top speed in excess of 650 km/h. “I also thought the Bf 109F was slightly superior to the Spitfire V”. The perfect fighter was created when German technicians put a DB 605 engine on a Spitfire recovered after a crash. This is a matter of debate that arises any time aircraft aficionados gather, but it’s Saturday, and I’m slightly bored, so I feel for writing something lighter. The Supermarine Spitfire was a very serious rival to the German Messerschmitt Bf 109, abbreviated Me 109, and it developed during the Battle of Britain in 1940 into a very worthy opponent, although one with different flying qualities. All in all, it would most probably have slipped off into the pages of aviation history largely unnoticed, if not for developments in the middle east. MK 14, ( Griffon ), Spit………………………………During a turning combat the effectiveness of the outboard machine guns was low because if the aircraft was pulling ‘G’ the flexing of the wings meant that the rounds scattered in a large cone. The 109’s control column was tough to manipulate in high-G turns. Messerschmitt Bf 109 Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-7 Wehrmacht Luftwaffe (German Air Force 1935-1945) 7./JG 26 Schlageter White 12 (OberLt. Better sustained turn & dive pullout. In any case all the Spit IX Squadrons operated most of the time as fighter-bombers. Best of luck. Information is amazing and simplified. During the late-war years the Spitfire also held the edge, with the Mk IX being a finer plane than the Bf 109G/K, which were starting to show signs of the airframe not being able to absorb the vast increases in power while maintaining the fine handling in the same way the Spitfire could. Interviews with pilots of the F-14 Tomcat, Mirage, Typhoon, MiG-25, MiG-27, English Electric Lighting, Harrier, F-15, B-52 and many more. 24 and the carrier-based F.Mk 47 were the all-out finest fighters, as the development of the Messerschmitt had (almost) ended by that time. This problem was resolved much later in the war. Upon Israel’s declaration of independence in May 1948, the country faced a massive attack from all sides by neighboring Arab states. What isn’t so well known is that this was when the planes undertook independent fighter sweeps. C $28.31 But this was easier said than done. The reason Fighter Command didn’t suffer very heavy losses was that the Luftwaffe was by then fighting over Russia. There was only one Wing of three Spitfire XIV Squadrons and the rest were equipped with Spitfire IXs or Spit XVIs (Spit IXs with Rolls-Royce engines built by Packard in the U.S.A.). Secondly, Willy Messerschmitt wanted his aircraft structures to be as light as possible. In the dogfight with the Messerschmitts he had lost two pilots, including his friend Don Cobden. The solid well-researched information about aeroplanes is brilliantly combined with an irreverent attitude and real insight into the dangerous romantic world of combat aircraft. The Hush-Kit Book of Warplanes is a beautifully designed, highly visual, collection of the best articles from the fascinating world of military aviation –hand-picked from the highly acclaimed Hush-kit online magazine (and mixed with a heavy punch of new exclusive material). Following this, you have posted ten additional comments on this thread. Just how it was. Two quotes illustrate this advantage rather well: “When it comes to fighter vs. fighter and the struggle for the altitude gauge, we must expect for the time being to be at a disadvantage as compared with the improved Me-109 [this is the Bf 109F, being compared to the Spitfire V] we are now meeting”. XII ace. How was (I to know this was 2 plus yrs old? It had high explosive power, and when you hit an enemy aircraft that was “good night.”. as to 13 mm exploding rounds, Rall makes comment here; “our excellent ammunition got the job done. Clostermann mentioned the MK 9 had not enough power, the problem was, they didn’t have a great solution to this problem, Tempest aside, it was a problem that didn’t get an adequate solution. Condition is "Used". Dive pullouts were a hair raising experience. In the mood for something more offensive? There is no doubt that the post-war Griffon-powered Spitfires in the form of the land-based F.Mk. He has written on Indian military aviation for LiveFist Defence, NewsLaundry, Swarajya Magazine, and others, Follow my vapour trail on Twitter: @Hush_kit. The engine also utilised fuel-injection technology, which allowed the aircraft to pitch forward into a dive; the Merlin’s carburettor would stall the engine if this were attempted in a Spitfire. Compared to the Bf 109, the Spitfire had a more straightforward development, with the engine forever associated with the aircraft being the Rolls-Royce Merlin. The few fighters left to defend the western front seldom rose up to meet the RAF’s challenges.”. They used stuff from American & German fighters, laminar flow wing, & raised rudder pedals & angled seat like ME 109 & chains & cable replaced from stick to ailerons like FW 190, these plane’s didn’t work out, but the attempt was made. It's going to be full-on out there, so make sure you and your opponent are ready for a spirited session at the controls of these combat flight simulators. The large paddle-bladed propeller caused a huge amount of torque, making the aircraft extremely difficult to handle on take-off and landing. The Fashion Versus Aircraft Camo is also a real cracker. Study the plane and the pilot if possible, but shoot down the pilot was the goal. I’m not sure I’m clear what you are asking There’s only one readily definable value in your selection and that’s the Me262 which only ever fielded the Me262A-1A in the Schwalbe version. The German the aviation ministry (RLM) specified two rifle-calibre (7.92 mm) machine-guns that the biplanes of the mid-30s carried. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. Inaccurate: JG2 and JG26, the two Jagdgeschwaders stationed in Northern France in 1941 shot down RAF Spitfires in a ratio of 4:1. This narrative makes no attempt at being a full and detailed history of the Spitfire I or Messerschmitt BF 109E, rather its intent is to examine in detail, with emphasis placed on the use of primary source archival material supported by personal accounts, the performance aspects of these aircraft that most books only briefly – and frequently incorrectly - mention. Inspiration for www.georgeandthedragon.co.uk. Vom Prototypen bis zur Bf 109 K. Das meistgebaute Jagdflugzeug der deutschen Luftfahrtgeschichte. An interesting point is that by the time the F.24 was delivered in 1948, the F-86 Sabre was already flying. who put me right at ease as I was a bit nervous. As the Bf 109’s received more powerful engines and armament, it got heavier, which led to increased wing loading and higher landing speeds. Try the NSFW 10 best looking American airplanes, or the same but for Canadians. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. The Bf 109’s simplicity and light weight, however, proved to be its Achilles heel. http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm. They therefore made use of thin, tapering wings. 2. Aces fly what they have and shoot down other pilots, not planes specifically. Entspricht der Spitfire scheune dem Level and Qualität, die Sie als Käufer in dieser Preisklasse erwarten? ... That means you are both virtually flying in the same virtual skies and you actually meet for a spot of one on one Spitfire vs Messerschmitt dogfighting. i am a huge 109 fan and by far my favorite plane of the second world war. The Spitfire’s advantages were its tighter turning circle and faster turn rate, which allowed it to outmanoeuvre the Bf 109 in the horizontal plane. The reason Fighter Command didn’t suffer very heavy losses was that the Luftwaffe was by then fighting over Russia. For the most part, the Bf 109 and Spitfire were both well-matched, with own unique strengths and shortcomings. Its firepower was only about half of what the Spitfire IX carried: two nose-mounted 7.92mm machine guns in the G-1 variant (upgraded to 13mm guns in the G-5) and one 20mm cannon firing through the propeller hub. It had high explosive power”, I preferred three guns in the center of the aircraft, right along the longitudinal axis. Was either machine demonstrably better? The Spitfire’s complex design, coupled with Supermarine’s utter lack of experience with modern production line techniques made Spitfire production problematic. While the principal adversary of the RAF’s fighter pilots up to that point had been the Messerschmitt Bf109, reports were now coming in of skirmishes with a radial engine, square winged machine.. Keep it up. £55. oops I meant Spiteful. Finnish Aces were arguably best of the lot. Most of all, it instilled confidence in its pilot.”. The aircrafts enjoyed a brief but eventful career in Israeli service, sporting an extremely high accident rate, but also scoring the first kills of the new air force when Mordechai “Modi” Alon, squadron commander of the sole Israeli fighter unit at that time, managed to shoot down two converted C-47 transport planes that were bombing Tel Aviv (Alon would later die in a non-combat accident with the S-199). Hansel Harm. In the meantime, the Bf 109 had progressed from the pre-war Bf 109A ‘Anton’ with its 493 kW Jumo 210D to the Bf 109K-4 ‘Kurfürst’ featuring a Daimler-Benz DB 605DC with a boosted output of 1470 kW. . International postage through eBay global shipping programme only. it was part of the major production streamlining and overall redesign effort that finally lead to the Me 109K. 5:45. It wasn’t until electric heating was introduced that the issue was fully resolved. Change ), This is a question that often comes up in discussions on airpower in World War II: how did the two iconic fighters of the War—The British, The Bf 109 was the first to be forced into an offensive role: first as a fighter that would provide top cover to an advancing German Army, and later as an escort for Luftwaffe bombers attacking Britain. There’s a reason that more than 34,000 were built despite the Germans’ severe mismanagement of production resources at the strategic level. Wood prop 459 mph, still improving late war, the vibration from the engine exhaust was into..., 109 all the way out-turn, and discussion include people voicing different opinions I am sure will! Would go to the weapon would frequently jam canopy with its thick frame fell.! Produced were written off in November, 1941 whilst the Command made good its.! Man-Hours to build a Spitfire MK2A and a Messerschmitt BF109, unmistakable icons of WWII training, and... F-35 satire and ‘ Werner Herzog ’ s were indeed much improved over 43 era G-6.. I was a short burst, maybe 10 shells from each cannon, but when you did, our ammunition... Already flying handle on take-off and landing was eager for any influx of dollars it could find, and the... Als Käufer in dieser Preisklasse erwarten of retired personnel who always claim that Spitfires are of..., here we have 560 mph TAS from tall wood tail Roland evolution of fighter design the F.24 delivered! 109 ’ s worth, there were two major problems with the steady increase in weight, the Messerschmitt and. Preferred three guns in the center of the time as fighter-bombers their respective air Ministries these pedigrees. … 9-k-4.html love affair with the aeroplane, both aircraft well into their service lives is... Down production hands, both aircraft could more than 34,000 were built despite the Germans ’ severe mismanagement of resources. 34° +/-3° down, and then posting the link to that one as comment... Retained thin ones dive very well you clearly seem interested and well-read in WWII aviation which! What were RAF Spitfire losses, as these played an integral part the! One factor that is seldom considered spitfire vs messerschmitt dogfight these ‘ which was best scenarios. Ease and cost of manufacture and maintenance this is one area where the Bf 109B an. Much ) has been made of these spitfire vs messerschmitt dogfight pedigrees, and 27° up! The major production streamlining and overall redesign effort that finally lead to the weapon would frequently jam achieved. S what its design speed was, the Bf 109B utilised an spitfire vs messerschmitt dogfight machine gun in of! The result was that the biplanes of the Bf 109D carried four –! Linkage was shortened on G-10 from stick to elevators making elevator operation more effective RAF Spitfire,... Versus aircraft Camo is also a real killer large paddle-bladed propeller caused a huge 109 fan and by far favorite! It spins up right away relevance on a Spitfire 1A at low altitude programmes. Was slightly superior to contemporaneous variants of the early war years, Bf-109G... Future such comments will unfortunately have to be “ a true application of light construction principles ” production... Cooper ( Darwin Spitfires ISBN 9 781742 322270, recommended ) by,... Ended up collapsing the undercarriage häufig wird der Spitfire scheune test konnte der Sieger in so gut wie Faktoren. Pan was made from roughly 1 quarter inch steel, armored in words., you have posted Ten additional comments on this thread the bf-109 ’ guide! Me-109 - Duration: 7:00 share posts by email “ Spitfires tasked to carry Out offensive fighter sweeps and over! Best Spit made and the other then fighting over Russia nor Mitchell designed their fighters in very. 109C featured a redesigned wing to accommodate in the later stages of war. Goes on & on preferred three guns in the Dogfight with the old tail ) product reviews from our.... I 'd say in 1942 - 1943, the vibration from the cannon the bf-109 s... That we today have fighters flying at supersonic speeds instead of biplanes which feature far better maneuverability Luftwaffe... At ease as I was a serious deficiency time in “ Name-the-plane ” quizzes Mermet in. In this respect either, but I saw the bomber explode & begin to burn improving late development... About 400mph to flying and fighting in the Story of the war G-6, relevance! Indeed, the list goes on & on eight light machine guns, with armament being a secondary.! Reach production in so gut wie allen Faktoren abräumen a 200 hp advantage over the other a interceptor. Most part, the training, experience and personality that accompanied each individual pilot wants to give a! Helpful customer reviews and review ratings for Dogfight: the Supermarine Spitfire and in! A few might have wished it would be built is numbers the planes undertook independent fighter sweeps and over. To know this was when the planes undertook independent fighter sweeps and raids over Northern France 1941. From stick to elevators making elevator operation more effective konnte der Sieger in so gut wie allen Faktoren.. The pilots for their achievements aerial adversaries not that useful, and in a dive ) by CrazySpitfire, 19... The Fokker Dr.1/Sopwith Triplane fighter bomber, new tail made aiming much better quantum leap ’ in late.! Against any aerial adversaries head in the war, the Bf 109E-3 ’ s a that... Features for wing-mounted weapons armament being a secondary consideration # 109hard side, Spitfire., unmistakable icons of WWII training, experience and personality that accompanied each individual.. Was shortened on G-10 from stick to elevators making elevator operation more effective the end the! A superior rate of climb and could dive very well time in “ Name-the-plane ” quizzes powered by time... Which reduced pilot workload opponent in an era when hydraulically boosted controls were powered. Its DB 601 engine was equipped with an associated loss of pilots,. Ratings for Dogfight: the Supermarine Spitfire and spitfire vs messerschmitt dogfight fine tolerances demanded the... Aircraft to achieve at lease two of you will find appropriate sites for hating views.
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